Chunk ninja: Reframing a conversation

You probably know this feeling. You're talking to a group of people and it's about all kinds of topics. You want to have your say on a topic, but the topic has already passed to another topic. Then you suddenly think, "How did we get here?" Sometimes even the whole group of people can think that. Then you start looking back together and thinking about what you were talking about

All those topics you talk about in conversations associate you with something and that can be another new topic of conversation you can tap into. Some people are better at this than others.

Those individuals I call chunk ninjas. In fact, chunking is a way to hijack a conversation, to highjack it. People don't always do this consciously. For example, my father was unconsciously skilled at being a chunk ninja. He did not know this himself and I did not realize it until much later.

But how do you actually do this chunking? For this, it is important to know that people talk at a certain level of abstraction. Some are very global and others, for example, are very precise, that is, with details. You could say a certain chunk-level.

Take a bicycle, for example. What is a bicycle, and what is it a part of? You could say a bicycle is a means of transportation, and cars are also means of transportation.

You can scale up this level of abstraction, for example, to traffic. Transportation is part of traffic, and traffic is part of infrastructure, which in turn is part of a country's economy.

And so you can keep going, and upchunking until you don't know anymore. From economy to country, to world, to universe, universes.... You could say you end up with information. Everything is energy and the energy is information. The quantum physicists agree that the universe is made up of information. That then is the highest upchunk, you might say.

Everything is information, this is also where scientists agree.

You can also chunk the other way, then think, for example: What is part of a bicycle? A bicycle bell. What's part of that bike bell? A plastic thingy in that bike bell, what is part of the plastic? Raw materials, what is part of that? Well then if you go all the way downchunking, so getting more and more specific, then you get to molecules and atoms, and if you go on from that you also get back to information - or until you don't know....

You actually end up with the same thing, whether you're upchunked or downchunked. And in between, between not knowing and not knowing you have chosen a level of communicating.

For example, I personally really enjoy talking globally. Hypnosis is sort of second nature of talking for me. I am very abstract and global. Half a word is enough for me and I like to think that way.

This is also a pitfall of mine, because it causes you to miss details, which can get you into trouble (think of the fine print in contracts).

For example, you shouldn't have me review a book. I go over it roughly and all the language errors will still be there. You let someone who is more detailed do that. That is the strength of that person. I don't have that, but I have other strengths. This is all okay.

Someone who is too detailed, for example, can sometimes lose sight of the forest for the trees.

That's how we talk too! On certain levels. And what can you do with that?

Getting back to my father for a moment. So one time I came home with my bike having a flat tire. So I told him that I had to walk home and that it was so busy, so it all took even longer for me to get home. It was quite an emotional story.

Then my father said, "Yes, traffic did change."

Then you already hear that it's not about bikes anymore. Instead, it's about traffic. The bicycle is still part of traffic, but now you can go from traffic in a completely different direction. To all kinds of things that have nothing to do with the bicycle.

So he agreed and sympathized with me and then suddenly said, "It used to be much quieter in traffic. We played soccer in the street between cars and I remember very well when we would go kick a can with the boy next door." So suddenly it was about something completely different, a story from the past. While I was talking about my breakdown with the bike, now suddenly it was about kicking a can down the street.

How did we get there?

So we went upchunking, comparing it to the past and then downchunking again from traffic to the street and finally to playing with the neighbor kids.

Suddenly I was in a childhood story and that's how you get chunked. That's how your conversation gets hijacked. You're in a group telling a story and someone just chunks you and then suddenly it's about something completely different.

Most do it unconsciously, some do it consciously. Politicians do it consciously. Those are trained on it. Those go straight to a higher level of abstraction.

It all sounds great, but you just have no idea what such a politician means. Who chunks up a topic like whisker scooters, to cars, to infrastructure and then to that infrastructure being "improved." Well totally super, but what do they mean now?

So they need to chunk to make their own point. You can't go from a scooter to housing, but if you put infrastructure in between and budget for projects, suddenly the link to housing makes sense.

This is truly an art.

This is also something you’ll learn during the training. At some point, you’ll notice that students are becoming increasingly skilled at this. For example, you can move to an increasingly higher level of abstraction, but also to an increasingly lower level of abstraction.

So from whisker scooters and cars downchunking to that cars are bothered by whisker scooters on the road and then saying, "But that's not the case on all roads. I know one road, for example, where it's fine because people are adjusting."

So someone can take a road as a topic and you then generalize that to the rest of the city. That's how politicians do it.

This is very interesting because, with this knowledge, you can still make your point without getting “chunked.” Or you can “chunk” back.

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Chunking or reframing?

Another thing you actually do with chunking is set a framework for yourself in which to think of conversation topics. As a therapist, you can use the chunking technique to help your client reframe certain issues.

• What happens when you pull the problem into a larger frame, an upchunk?
• What happens when you reframe the problem smaller, that you downchannel the theme of the problem?

Reframing a problem, for example, helps strengthen the motivation to solve it. In the United States, for example, the use of school psychologists is quite common, but those psychologists found it very difficult to motivate parents to take action regarding their children’s psychological problems. This was because the child’s problem was not the family’s problem.

The psychologists then began to “upchunk” the problem to the family level—that is, reframing it in terms of how their child’s problem affects the family as a whole. As a result, parents became much more involved in resolving their children’s mental health issues[1].

This doesn’t just apply to parents. Even if you feel that solving a particular problem is impossible, reframing it can actually give you the energy you need to solve it.

For people suffering from chronic pain, for example, reframing that pain and how it affects their lives helps. This causes them to experience less pain[2].

Another way reframing is used is by looking at the positive side of a problem. For example, by viewing the problem within a “bigger picture,” you can say that having relationship problems stimulates your personal growth. And that, in turn, has all sorts of benefits. For instance, upchunking can help you stay positive during difficult times. The same can be achieved through downchunking and reframing. So that’s something you’ll learn during the training: exactly how to go about it[3].

When processing trauma, reframing through hypnosis is sometimes crucial to making psychological treatment possible. This involves the use of experimental reframing, as Milton Erickson described doing with hypnosis[4].

Being a “chunk ninja” is therefore incredibly important for helping people. Whether it’s dealing with minor problems, managing pain, or even processing severe trauma, hypnosis plays a vital role in all of these situations.

Would you like to know if you can hypnotize people and whether you can help them with it? Then come to a hypnosis workshop. The workshops are held in Wormerveer and Zwolle.

Want to know how these types of techniques work in practice? Then come to a hypnosis seminar, where you can learn more about hypnosis, giving good feelings and see examples of hypnotherapy.

Do you want to get started right away with hypnosis to help people as a therapist or coach? Then sign up for one of our training programs. The programs are offered in Wormerveer, Zwolle, and online.

[1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/1520-6807(198304)20:2%3C210::AID-PITS2310200213%3E3.0.CO;2-D

[2] https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1992-20649-001

[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5840190/

[4] https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2017-06950-001