Two mentalists are joining the hypnosis seminar… One says to the other: “Is this for real?”

What’s real and what’s a trick? Can you influence someone without them realizing it? And how is it possible that your brain sometimes makes you see something that isn’t happening at all?

During the Hypnose Instituut Nederland’s “Hidden Influence” seminar , Rob and Emiel will take you on a journey into the fascinating world of mentalism, hypnosis, and influence.

With magic, humor, and surprising insights, they demonstrate just how powerful words and body language can be. But don’t expect to get answers to all your questions. Because that’s exactly what makes their performance so special.

Magic in Cabaret

Rob and Emiel have been a successful magic cabaret duo for 25 years. They combine magic, mentalism, cabaret, and psychology in performances that entertain while making you think. With about 300 performances a year, they are a highly sought-after duo in theaters and the corporate world.

Their specialty is mentalism. This isn’t always about traditional magic tricks involving sleight of hand and spectacular illusions, but primarily about how the human brain works.

“Our passion for magic lies very much in mentalism. Of course, we can also do tricks with illusions and smoke screens, but our passion really lies in the mental aspect,” says Rob.

And they’ve done so with great success. The duo has won three awards at the World Championships and has also claimed three Dutch Grand Prix awards. That is the highest possible Dutch honor in the art of magic.

Of their 300 annual performances, about 200 are geared toward the business world. There, they combine entertainment with inspiration, motivation, and insights into human behavior. They’ll also be bringing that combination to Hidden Influence on November 20 and 21.

One magic trick changed Rob’s life

Rob’s passion for magic began with a single magic trick. As a boy, he saw a magician perform at an event. The magician kept performing the same trick over and over, but Rob just couldn’t get enough of it.

“I just stood there for two hours, and that guy kept doing the same trick over and over,” Rob recalls. “At one point, I asked if it was actually okay to do the same trick that often.”

The magician then asked if Rob now understood how the trick worked. No, he didn’t. When he then asked if Rob liked the trick, the answer was clear: he thought it was one of the most amazing things he’d ever seen.

The magician revealed the secret of the trick to him. He explained that the art of magic would die out if magicians never passed on their knowledge to people who were genuinely fascinated by it.

“So I learned one trick from a magician, and a year later I became the Dutch champion for the first time,” says Rob.

But it didn’t stop there. His fascination grew into a career in which he delved ever deeper into the art of wonder.

Emiel unexpectedly found himself in front of his first audience

For Emiel, his introduction to magic was very different. He worked as a sound technician at an event center and became friends with a magician there. He learned a few tricks from him.

When the magician fell ill one day, a problem arose. The event center had, in fact, scheduled a performance.

“The director said to Emiel, ‘You can do magic, right?’ Emiel replied that he only knew two or three tricks,” Rob says with a laugh.

That made little difference to the director. A magician was needed, and Emiel was allowed on stage.

So there he was, with absolutely no stage experience, suddenly standing in front of an audience that expected to see a professional magic show.

What began as an unexpected performance eventually grew into a successful collaboration with Rob. For a quarter of a century now, they’ve been a duo constantly searching for new ways to surprise people.

Magic goes beyond the trick

According to Rob, there’s a big difference between someone who learns a trick and someone who is truly captivated by the field.

Some people find it particularly interesting to discover how something works. Once they know the secret, their interest fades. Others, on the other hand, want to understand why a trick makes such an impression.

“Emiel and I have been continuously refining our tricks for 25 years. For us, it’s no longer about the trick itself, but about the story behind it and the psychological aspect.”

It is precisely in this that Rob sees a connection with hypnosis. Learning a technique is one thing, but understanding how to use it to create a special experience requires further exploration.

Why does a particular suggestion work? What feelings does a story evoke? And how can you draw someone so deeply into an experience that they truly feel a sense of wonder?

These are the questions Rob and Emiel are constantly grappling with.

The Difference Between Mentalism and Hypnosis

Although mentalism and hypnosis have some overlap, according to Rob, they are two distinct fields.

According to him, mentalism is broader. Mentalists use various techniques to create effects that seem almost impossible to the audience. Hypnosis can be part of that, but it isn’t necessary.

“Hypnosis is truly a field that mentalists can also use. I deliberately use the word ‘also,’ because there are many more ways to achieve an effect,” Rob explains. “With hypnosis and words, you can put someone into a specific state of consciousness. From that state, various experiences can then be evoked.”

For Rob and Emiel, it’s all about the power of imagination. For example, they can help someone experience what it’s like to be standing on a lawn or sitting on the couch at home.

The main difference lies in the purpose for which the techniques are used. While hypnotherapists use hypnosis to provide therapeutic guidance, Rob and Emiel use the technique to add an extra dimension to their performances—but without any silliness.

"We use hypnosis to add an extra layer to a trick we perform. To let people truly experience something and to deepen the effect we want to demonstrate."

Hypnosis as part of a unique experience

If you think of hypnosis entertainment as people running around a stage like chickens or suddenly forgetting their names, you can expect something completely different from Rob and Emiel.

Rob isn’t really into that kind of stage hypnosis. Instead, he wants people to have a unique, personal experience.

For example, how, in a certain state, you can truly imagine yourself being in a specific location and feeling certain things. This is combined with something happening on stage, and that’s what makes it so magical for both the audience and the person being mentally influenced.

According to Rob, what makes it special is that the audience has a different experience than the person on stage. This is also known as “dual reality.”

“What’s more, the people in the audience experience something different from the man or woman on stage. I think that’s really cool.”

It demonstrates just how powerful stories, suggestions, and the interpretation of words can be.

What will Rob and Emiel do during Hidden Influence?

During *Hidden Influence*, Rob and Emiel combine some of their best acts with two short lectures. In these, they demonstrate how our perception works and how easily people can be influenced.

Emiel focuses, among other things, on blind spots and pattern thinking. Because your eyes and brain don’t always work together the way you think they do.

Rob focuses specifically on the power of language and body language. He demonstrates how the way you say something can influence the behavior and choices of others.

"We’re going to teach people about blind spots, pattern thinking, and how to influence others using language and body language."

They don’t just talk about it—visitors get to experience the effects for themselves.

In this way, their approach aligns with the central theme of *Hidden Influence*: the impact that communication and suggestion can have on what people think, feel, and do.

What is real and what is not?

One of the most important questions Rob wants to ask during *Hidden Influence* is what we actually mean by “real” and “unreal.”

According to him, that distinction is by no means always as simple as it seems.

“We’re often asked whether hypnosis is real. In that case, I should really ask the question back: What is real to you, and what is unreal to you?”

Rob compares it to baking bread. That’s real, but at the same time, it’s also a trick where you combine ingredients in a certain way.

For Rob, therefore, it doesn’t really matter whether visitors believe that everything they see is real. His goal is for people to continue thinking critically for themselves.

"We want to give people a wonderful feeling—the feeling of wonder. If you think it’s real, that’s fine. If you think it’s not real, that’s actually fine, too."

More Than Just Entertainment at Hidden Influence

In *Hidden Influence*, Rob and Emiel want to show above all that influence goes far beyond simply applying a technique.

The way you tell a story, the words you choose, and the expectations you create can all contribute to another person’s experience.

For both novice and experienced hypnosis professionals, their approach thus offers a unique perspective on the field.

“I find it interesting when someone performs a fairly simple trick but presents it brilliantly with a good story,” says Rob.

That is exactly what Rob and Emiel want visitors to experience during *Hidden Influence*: the power of communication, suggestion, and wonder.

And while you might not go home with all the answers after their performance, you will certainly leave with a different perspective on what you see, hear, and believe.

Want to learn more about Rob and Emiel and their theater shows, including *Thinking Like Sherlock*? Then visit www.robenemiel.nl.

Would you like to see their presentation and learn how “Hidden Influence” works from Edwin Selij? Order your ticket here and join these two mentalists at the hypnosis seminar.